Curse

gene terrodon · Nov 06, 2006, 01:36 PM // 13:36

Why everyone thinks so low of collector/crafter weapons is beyond me.
The scythe in the OP's thread is a good weapon at a good price.
I saw no hints at misrepresentation or bait and switch.
The weapon was advertised and demoed and you had your choice to say yay or nay.
Also, was it a collector's weapon or a crafted weapon?
A crafted weapon, after mods and materials can easily cost >10K.
How much for a gold one with similar stats? 25k or more? Now that's scamming.
Any weapon that fits your needs, whether crafter, collector, gold or green is worth what you’re willing to pay for it.

Tetris L · Nov 06, 2006, 02:07 PM // 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by gene terrodon

Why everyone thinks so low of collector's weapons is beyond me.
The scythe in the OP's thread is a good weapon at a good price.

I'm not thinking low of collector's weapons. Not at all. The offered scythe is a good weapon! But it is not worth 10k. No way. Most of the items required for max dmg collector weapons can be collected by less than 1/2 hour of farming. Asking 10k for that is seriously overpriced.

If you point out to a potential buyer that what you're selling is a collector weapon and he is still willing to pay 10k, then the buyer is an idiot and deserves no better. If you're trying to hide the fact that it's a collector weapon then you're scamming, IMHO.

xuemin · Nov 06, 2006, 02:10 PM // 14:10

it's not a scam, it's more of an abuse of new players in some cases. not all new players know about sites like guru and wiki and may be afraid to ask in local chat because of certain types of people in game >.>

Sooty · Nov 06, 2006, 02:11 PM // 14:11

I was actually doing exactly what the op is talking about. I rushed through nightfall, finished the game and was workin on my ele when i saw a TON of people saying wtb max scythes and spears. I thought to myself well i remember seeing a collector for margonite masks somewhere trading them for 15^50 scythes and spears. So i picked some up and went back to Kamadan and said:

WTS max 15^50 scythes and spears (collectors)

Now i'm guessing i'm not who the op is talking about because I made it obvious that it was a collectors item in my ad. I sold one scythe for 5k before i thought better of it and put them on my heroes, and given that i was up front about what they were no i don't think it was a scam at all, and even if someone else didn't say it was collectors in their ad no it's not a scam either. If someone is starting a low level character and wants a max 15^50 weapon at the start of a new campaign, it's obviously going to be worth something to them to have it. I understand if people who don't have a lot of gold think this is unfair but the fact is if the next person along is happy to pay more than you, then he's the one the seller will sell to. That's the way market economies work.

p.s. i doubt it would have been the new players buying them either.

Sooty · Nov 06, 2006, 02:18 PM // 14:18

accidental post.

Desires · Nov 06, 2006, 02:38 PM // 14:38

well not so much now but before 10k for a max damage syche was kinda cheap I mean the people spaming for any max damage one was insane.

Pkest · Nov 06, 2006, 02:42 PM // 14:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tetris L

I'm not thinking low of collector's weapons. Not at all. The offered scythe is a good weapon! But it is not worth 10k. No way. Most of the items required for max dmg collector weapons can be collected by less than 1/2 hour of farming. Asking 10k for that is seriously overpriced.

It's not worth 10k to you. So fine don't buy it. If I had just made a Dervish and didn't have the prerelease weapons and had no idea how long it would be before I saw a max scythe I would gladly pay 10k to have one right away. I'm not hurting for cash and the scythe would more than pay for itself in the speed of killing and getting drops compared to the damamge of the stuff normally available in Istan and early on the mainland. imho.

Eviance · Nov 06, 2006, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Ya know the price on that Scythe all depends on how hard it is to obtain, be it collectors or not!

We all remember the crimson carapice that you needed those shells for? Those shells sold for 1-2k a pop and you needed 5 of them, but they were NOT easily farmable. So even though the shield was collectors it could usually sell for 8-20k depending on how desperate the buyer was.
So no not a scam imo.

EternalTempest · Nov 06, 2006, 04:04 PM // 16:04

I say it's not a scam.

A - Advertise X item with X stats at X price
B - Item is X item with X stats and pays X price.

Now If it's a practice I agree with then the answer is no. I like to be honest, I would feel it's price gouging. Here's an example, what the oil / gas companies is doing. There legally allowed to price gouge but people hate it. It's not illegal for them to try and make more money. It's the public pressure that can sometime bring them back in check. Not the law.

I'm all for applying social pressure, if spam about how you can get the same item for monster drops or educating people on collectors stuff. I would not call the seller names or attack them.

XvArchonvX · Nov 06, 2006, 04:16 PM // 16:16

If someone is presenting a weapon like that and not informing the buyer that it is a collector item, then the seller obviously had the intent to take advantage of the buyer's lack of knowledge. I think it all comes down to what you consider a scam. If you consider a scam the act of taking all and giving none, then no it is not a scam, but if you consider a scam the act of taking advantage of a buyer's lack of knowledge in order to make a large amount of money that could not have been made, would the buyer have known better, than yes it is a scam. Personally, I'm not sure if I would consider it a scam, but I would consider it wrong regardless.

lyra_song · Nov 06, 2006, 04:37 PM // 16:37

I consider this more Scalping/Price gouging.

The Scythe is a perfectly fine scythe.

Its a collector's scythe. yes.

Is it worth 10k? no.

At this point in the game, would some people be willing to pay 10k for a blue scythe? maybe.

I remember when Factions came out, people were selling Katanas in LA for relatively high prices. Its the same thing.

logik · Nov 06, 2006, 04:59 PM // 16:59

not scamming at all. A ton of people do this all the time. I do, and when i sell it people know its collectors or crafers (as in the case with Factions weapons).

nightshade_eyes · Nov 06, 2006, 06:09 PM // 18:09

10k? only an idiot would pay that much. you can get the same weapon for 5k+mats at a crafter.

gene terrodon · Nov 06, 2006, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Why are all of the people with an issue pointing to the fact that the weapon is a collector's weapon?
If the seller advertises a weapon, with specific stats and produces that weapon...regardless if it's a rare weapon or a common collector's weapon, there is no scam. Point blank. Liken it to this...

You go to your neighborhood electronics store looking for a GPU.
They have it for $100, but you can get online for $75...but have to wait a week for the etailer to ship it to you. What do you do if you need the GPU today?
Will you pony up the $100 or will pay $75 and wait a week?
Or what if you could pay $100 for a computer desk or spend 8 hours building it yourself, what would you do?
Spend the 8 hours to build the desk or pay $100 for a pre-built desk?
In the examples above, do you fell that your neighborhood retailer scamming you?

If not, then why do you feel the player selling (legitimately) a collector's/crafter's weapon is?

dansamy · Nov 06, 2006, 06:24 PM // 18:24

I have purchased collector items from players simply because I couldn't be troubled to go get it myself. I'm seriously cnsidering finding myself another player to provide a weapons service for me, for a price of course. I need to build new staves, etc and really don't wish to assemble them myself. I'd gladly pay someone else for the service.

*Darcy* · Nov 06, 2006, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Scam? No. A scam is when the seller is trying to get money without giving the buyer the agreed sale item, e.g. fake runs, substituted items, unusable items.

Immoral? No. The buyer gets to see the item in the trade window. A collector weapon is blue with perfect stats for that item. There is no lying involved. And you can't tell from an ad, what conversation followed between seller and buyer.

Factions players offering runs from The Marketplace to KC are not scammers (although some of them are price gouging). They perform the service they advertise. I never accuse them of scamming, although I will announce that runs aren't needed and give the directions to KC.

The same with collector or crafter weapons. Yes, they are available to the buyer - if he has reached the area of the collector/crafter with the required materials. Prior to that, the item is worth what he is willing to pay.

I have a crafted shield that is the equivalent of the Exalted Aegis without the skin. I will sell it to anyone for 10K. It cost me about 6k in gold and materials. That doesn't make me a scammer, just someone looking for a profit.

Malice Black · Nov 06, 2006, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Paying money for collectors items is perfectly fine. 10k is reasonable if they are after a cheap 15^50 scythe and can't get to the collector.

People sold +5 Katanas when Factions went live..whats the difference? The person in question is just adding a small % fee for taking the trouble of getting the item..all above board and hardly "scamming".

Seriously some people that post on these forums lead sheltered lives.

Gigashadow · Nov 06, 2006, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terra Xin

Nah that's just plain old scamming. Its exactly like someone in Pre-searing advertising "WTB Black Dye, 1k!".

Except that isn't scamming either.

The Great Al · Nov 06, 2006, 11:48 PM // 23:48

There's no way that's a scam - theres a difference between scamming someone and ripping them off. Offering a wrong gold amount when buying something, or selling a customized weapon is IMO scamming, although in both instances the person being scammed should be more careful.

Yesterday I sold my book of secrets for 65k. Did I scam the guy? No way...did I rip him off? Definetly, the guy didn't even know what to do with it, and was spamming WTB book of secrets...that's his loss, not mine, but I didn't do anything against the rules.